Shingeki no Kyojin Episode 25 Discussion

Amarrez said:
I just realized that they had Mikasa pull Eren away from the titan instead of Armin. They're really pushing that ship, huh?

MikasaxEren said:
No complaints here

Regarding Eren's "fire mode"

Am I the only person who didn't dislike it?

Titans are hot steam comes off them when they heal or exert themselves ( the armored titan breaking through wall Maria, Eren carrying the boulder). The fire, to me represented Eren pushing himself to the limit, the fire instead of the steam is Eren's body being pushed to its limits, sure it's different from the manga but there are much worse differences in this episode (the reveal of the wa titan dafuq?) .

MikasaxEren said:
No complaints here

Regarding Eren's "fire mode"

Am I the only person who didn't dislike it?

Titans are hot steam comes off them when they heal or exert themselves ( the armored titan breaking through wall Maria, Eren carrying the boulder). The fire, to me represented Eren pushing himself to the limit, the fire instead of the steam is Eren's body being pushed to its limits, sure it's different from the manga but there are much worse differences in this episode (the reveal of the wa titan dafuq?) .

Meruru_Arls said:


Yes... That fire mode bs ruin everything. What were they thinking... geez.

Pipoko said:


People say that.. yet, thinking about it, what exactly did it ruin or change in the overall picture? It's so easy to criticize something just because it isn't in the source. Yes, it's out of nowhere, yes it's ridiculous, but what exactly did that change in the overall scheme of things?

Meruru_Arls said:


I think they said if she is removed from the crystal. She will die.

Meruru_Arls said:


It ruins its future potential as an anime, and out of alll 25 episodes. This was the only one that made me rage. I truly hate deus ex machina. Why can't people be creative anymore.

if anything, it served like a sequel hook if ever a second season will be pushed.

Chiyonyan said:

Well yeah, except they're gonna have to retcon like 1/2 of episode 25 to make Utgard castle arc make sense.

Chiyonyan said:

Well yeah, except they're gonna have to retcon like 1/2 of episode 25 to make Utgard castle arc make sense.

Pipoko said:
No seriously, there's some off stuff in this episode, but what exactly constradicts anything at Utgard?

Pipoko said:


What exactly? I don't get it! I'm thinking, but all these changes in this episode - none of it should be affecting utgard because

Pipoko said:

Pipoko said:


Yeah, they did, but it's plausible to set the aftermath with the wall in the start of the 2nd season so that it wouldn't create that plothole.

RinM said:
Well all in all the show was decent. I like the manga much, much more. The pacing was awfully slow at times, the order of some crucial points bugged me a lot. But all in all it was decent. Now going back to monthly releases.
I'll probably give it a 7/10

dxia said:
This adaptation had me up until episode 24. It really did. Even though it left out important scenes and such as

- Eren's dream about Mikasa at the very beginning
- Eren's monologue in the forest of giant trees about not wanting to be seen as a monster
- Annie's first smile when Eren is enthused about her technique (this should have been in the training scene; if not at least episode 24, as it would have shown a deeper respect and camaraderie between Eren and Annie, further justifying his reluctance to transform)

the show was stil mostly faithful to its excellent manga counterpart, with good filler, beautiful animation, and an outstanding OST. But the second half of episode 25 was just incredibly disappointing. The reasons are all related to the plot, characters, and presentation, not the design of the show itself. They are:

1. Eren losing himself to his titan - This issue goes back to episode 24, when he flies into a rage and resolves to kill Annie. This is VERY poor character development. What happened to the Eren who was maturing and learning self-control during his time with the Levi squad? The manga depicted Eren transforming in order to protect Mikasa and Armin. It was a somber, sober decision following a poignant moment with Mikasa (which was understated in the anime). He keeps control of himself throughout the fight, instead of becoming a mindless, flaming berserker. This shows an improved control over his titan form, which is CRUCIAL to his later fight with the (SPOILER) Armored Titan. He never brings himself to hate Annie, think of her as evil, or truly want to kill her; he is more confused about her motives than anything, and the tone of his monologue in the anime should have reflected that (which it didn't).

TL;DR - In the manga, Eren develops as a human. The reader can feel that there is a human inside his titan. In the anime, he becomes a mindless beast. The flames on his body are not a big issue; his character certainly is.

2. Eren does not throw Mikasa - This is an offshoot of 1, in that the throwing action shows Eren in a rational, levelheaded, controlled state, able to listen to Armin and coordinate with Mikasa (instead of punching her like he did in Episode 11). It also explains why none of the other Scouts were able to reach Annie, and why Mikasa was able to reach her without even using the 3DMG. This scene could have been incredibly epic, iconic even, in the anime. Unfortunately, it was simply cut.

3. Mikasa, Pastor Nick, and Hanji do not see the Colossal Titan inside Wall Sina - What? THIS should have been the BIGGEST dramatic reveal in the first season. THIS was supposed to shock non-manga readers into wanting more. That moment when Mikasa stares dumbfounded at the titan's face could have been beautiful. Instead, we are given a comical few seconds after the ending credits; NOT serious, dramatic, and powerful, in order to really provoke the viewer into thinking about its implications, but COMICAL.

This isn't just a matter of presentation. (SPOILERS) What will happen to the scene where Hanji dangles Pastor Nick over the wall? What will happen to the dark secret that the Wall Cultists were created to protect, and Levi's subsequent attempt to extract information from them? What will happen to Christa's role in this whole affair? All of it will either go to shit, or have to be ass-pulled.

3. Levi swoops in with the 3DMG (to impress the fangirls) - Really? Levi's ankle is shot! He couldn't even save Petra's body from a retarded titan, but now he has the precision to cut Eren out of his titan?

Besides being total bullshit from a practical point of view, IT IS NOT A COINCIDENCE that Hajime Isayama pulled Levi out of the story when he did.

It is very important that Levi be excluded at the moment, because Levi is a cathartic character. That's why he's so popular. When the reader/viewer is frustrated that no one can handle the female titan, Levi swoops in and does away with her. When the reader/viewer can't stand the corrupt military police, Levi spits insults at them and gets away with it, because he's LEVI. Levi is not and was never meant to embody morally ambiguous themes.

This is why his return in the anime is a (BIG) problem, because after Annie is revealed as the female titan, killing titans becomes MORALLY AMBIGUOUS. Even enemy titans have become humanized. If Levi is well enough to use the 3DMG already, what will happen when (SPOILER) the Armored and Colossal Titans make their 3rd appearance? How will the anime justify their escape with Eren when the Achilles of titan killing is already back in action?

These 3 points and their sub-points sum up the MAJOR character and plot issues that his episode has opened.

I really thought that WIT/IG included filler in order to do this segment of the manga full justice in the finale: no filler, just pure, good storytelling based on an award-winning manga from a talented author.

That's ALL they had to do to knock it out of the park. THEY HAD ONE JOB, AND THEY FUCKED IT UP.

In order to continue with a second season properly, the least they would need to do is remake episode 25. I, however, am in the AoT: Titanhood camp: wait until the manga nears its end, and do a faithfully adapted remake with even better production values and no pacing issues. A show like that could become the next FMAB.

As it is however, the AoT anime has just ruined what could have been one of the most epic and iconic finales of all time.

RagingMan said:
Are people really giving the episode low scores just because they changed the order of things? Maybe just trolls.

antonn said:
Even Mass Effect 3 had a better ending.

dxia said:

In order to continue with a second season properly, the least they would need to do is remake episode 25. I, however, am in the AoT: Titanhood camp: wait until the manga nears its end, and do a faithfully adapted remake with even better production values and no pacing issues. A show like that could become the next FMAB.

Aeowina said:
No offense, but you Purists are plain idiots >~<

Not everybody is going to read the manga. So as an anime standing on it's own - it's among the best of this year. I'm sure y'all hate watching the movie adaptions of your favorite novels, cause they change a lot more y'know.

This is the end of the season - who knows when we might get another one. It's not a serialized manga where the arc ends, but you know another chapter's gonna come out in a week/month/etc.

If you like the manga version better or vice versa, good for you! There's no need to complain about nit picky little details that the creators have decided on. How about you pretend that your ideal version is how they adapted the anime using your imagination. Let the different versions build upon each other instead of hating on them just because of small differences. This is like racism of the otaku's lol.

And about the "terrible" Wall Titan reveal... I haven't read until that point, but I can say it was executed well because I still had a "HOLY SHIT! Dat cliffhanger!!!" reaction >3> If the manga did a better job, then I'll just have double the pleasure to read it.

Anyway, sorry for the rant. Just pissed at people complaining over stupid details over such an awesome anime. Can't wait for season 2, and now I'm off to read the manga ^u^

Amarrez said:
There's no justification for Eren being on fire. Even if it's a stylistic choice it's retarded and makes no sense. Why? Why did you set Eren on fire Mr. Araki?

Levi using 3DMG was beyond stupid.

The way they revealed the titan in the wall was utterly terrible and also makes no sense considering how that scene plays out in the manga. So, what, is everyone going to see it now?

The only anime-original choice I liked in the episode was Annie's meth addict face. That was really well done. Of course it was semi-ruined by FIRE EREN hopping about but that's just how things are I suppose.

All in all I'll give this adaptation a 6/10. Inconsistent.