Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Mama (Vitas album)

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. Withdrawn nomination with no outstanding delete !votes. (non-admin closure) Tim Song (talk) 19:46, 26 September 2009 (UTC)

Mama (Vitas album)

Mama (Vitas album) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log)

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Fails WP:NALBUM Never charted anywhere, only thing listed is the track listing. PopMusicBuff ^talk 18:25, 19 September 2009 (UTC)

• Keep. In a nutshell:

• This article already includes songwriting credits, important information which is very difficult to find on English language websites, and I am currently working on expanding and improving this article and others on Vitas albums
• Mama is a notable album by a notable artist
• Deleting this article would mean the loss of significant information which is likely to be sought by Wikipedia readers; and moving the information from the individual album articles into the Vitas Discography section is not a suitable solution because this would make the section overlong and the article appear cluttered.

The above claim "only thing listed is the track listing" is blatantly untrue. I am working to improve all the Vitas album articles, but this is currently the most detailed of them: significantly, it includes songwriting credits, as well as the usual tracklisting and an infobox. Information on the songwriters involved with this album is actually almost impossible to find on English language websites, and I feel strongly that this information should be accessible rather than virtually a secret to those who can't read Russian or don't own the album. The information was also used to make a correction to the main Vitas article.

I don't think the notability of Vitas himself is in question: he is a major star in Russia, China and several other countries and meets several of the WP:NM criteria.

The subject is inherently notable as a major album from a notable artist, and the song The Star from this album won a Russian People's HIT award. Several songs from this album also featured in the set for Vitas' major concert tour The Songs of My Mother. The song Starry River featured on this album was composed by Alexandra Pakhmutova.

According to Vitas' website:

he released nine albums ("Philosophy of Miracle", "Smile!", "Mother", "The Songs of My Mother", "Kiss As Long As Eternity", "Return Home. Part 1", "Return Home. Part 2", "XX-th Century HITS", "Light Of A New Day") which were entered into the Top Three most popular albums in 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007 and 2008.

I am surprised by the claim that this album "Never charted anywhere". It's generally much more difficult to prove a negative than a positive, particularly in a case like this, when many foreign music charts are not widely published online, and sources such as the one quoted above are unclear about specifics. It would be more accurate to say that we currently have no information as to whether this album has charted anywhere. If I find any information regarding chart positions in any country, I will add this to the article.

The WP:NALBUM section states:

In general, if the musician or ensemble that recorded an album is considered notable, then officially released albums may have sufficient notability to have individual articles on Wikipedia.

Album articles with little more than a track listing may be more appropriately merged into the artist's main article or discography article, space permitting.

Since this article does contain significant information beyond mere tracklisting, and since Vitas has released 9 studio albums as well as a number of compilations, singles and DVDs, it is obviously not a suitable candidate for merging into the Discography section of the main Vitas article. What we have here is important information on a notable subject for which interested readers are likely to search Wikipedia, so it should stay. Contains Mild Peril (talk) 17:10, 22 September 2009 (UTC)

• Delete
  • In what way is this album (or any of his other albums) notable? WP:NALBUM states
  • Only official official charts can be used in Wikipedia for albums and singles and notable songs. If you can provide such charts with reliable sources, then feel free to add them.
  • These tracklisting are not likely to be sought after by Wikipedians, considering that a link to his official site is posted on his artist page.
  • WP:NALBUM states:

All articles on albums, singles or songs must meet the basic criteria at the notability guidelines, with significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject.

PopMusicBuff ^talk 20:54, 22 September 2009 (UTC)

• • Comment - Your nomination itself is a de facto !vote to delete. It is not necessary to !vote delete in the discussion. Rlendog (talk) 21:41, 23 September 2009 (UTC)

• Comment - The discussion about whether the album charted may not be relevant, since charting is specifically an issue for songs, not albums. The album guidelines are more lenient. For albums, WP:ALBUMS states "In general, if the musician or ensemble that recorded an album is considered notable, then officially released albums may have sufficient notability to have individual articles on Wikipedia." As of yet, I see no reason to override the general rule for this album. I could be convinced otherwise if no significant coverage actually exists, but the coverage requirements under WP:N are not limited to English sources, and since this is a Russian album, I would need to be convinced that no significant Russian sources exist before !voting delete. As of now, there is no indication of what the nominator did under WP:BEFORE to ascertain that there is no significant coverage in Russian sources. Rlendog (talk) 21:38, 23 September 2009 (UTC)

• Reply - This article has been improved since AfD nomination was made. I believe the concerns raised have now largely been addressed, and the tags applied will encourage other editors to make further improvements.

• Notability: Track The Star won People's Hot prize, and this album is also associated with a major world tour. I would also contend that Vitas albums are inherently notable as major albums from a notable artist (and as I mentioned above, Vitas meets several WP:NM criteria). It is questionable whether he would be famous for other activities were it not for the music on these albums.

• Content: This article has been considerably expanded, and now includes far more than a tracklisting (and Wikipedia is the first place I and many others look for album tracklistings anyway: there are many reasons why it may be preferable to commercial sites). Includes songwiting credits which are very difficult to find in English language. It provides information about the associated tour and and other information. Contains Mild Peril (talk) 17:30, 26 September 2009 (UTC)

EDIT: Keep and close discussion PopMusicBuff ^talk 17:32, 26 September 2009 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.